LAINEY: So... Yeah. I titled this Digital Accessibility and Civil Rights: A 2023 Legal Landscape for the Accessibility New York City Community. I love speaking with meetups. And I've been to accessibility meetups in New York and in Seattle and in Boston and in Chicago. Because you all are the people that make accessibility work. You are the people doing the very challenging and hard work of creating accessible environments in the digital space for disabled people. So... It's really an honor to be here and have you want to speak to me. Speak with me. And we'll leave some time for questions. There's a lot of content up on my title slide. I have my name, I have my website, which is LFLegal.com. The website has a lot of information about what's happening in the legal space. And also about how to do accessibility work in collaboration, instead of in fighting. Which is what my book is about. 

You'll see in the background of the slide there's some dolphins jumping. Because dolphins are, like, my spirit animal. We'll talk about it a little in the middle. In a minute. But... You know, lawyers are referred to as sharks. And I am a disability rights lawyer. And so... About five years ago, somebody wrote a book called Teaching Baby Sharks to Swim. And it was about how to train lawyers. I was like... Oh, no! And I called two people I know who are marine biologists. And I said: I need a sea creature to be. And they both suggested dolphins. For a reason we'll talk about. And you know, I used the metaphor for a long time. It's in the second edition of my book. Someone raised their hand and said: I don't think you understand that sharks are really important to the ecosystem of the ocean. So I had to explain that... Actually, this is a metaphor. I'm not saying sharks are bad! I'm saying there's different ways to advocate. And we'll talk about that in a bit. So my website has everything on it. I took the copyright off in the last couple of years. Everything is creative commons. So use it according to the license, to advance accessibility. 

At LFLegal, I used to be very active on Twitter. Not so much anymore. But I'm also on Mastodon. I'm the only Lainey Feingold on LinkedIn. I guess I have to thank my dad and my mom, who died in 2009, for giving me a name that was not replicated. So that's the background. Here's the road map. There's a road right by Vesey Street, right around here. This is the road map. So I want to talk a little bit about what digital accessibility is, even though... We all know that's why we're here at the Accessibility Meetup. But I think in terms of using the law and getting people to understand that accessibility is a human right, we have to really be mindful of how we talk about accessibility. So I'll just do that for a little bit. Talk about the current laws and regulations in the US. What's on the horizon. How they're being implemented, how to stay ahead of the law, and how to talk and not talk about the law. So that's what we're gonna do. And we're gonna start with: What is digital accessibility? All of you are in different roles. If I didn't have so much content, we could go around. So just think of your role. And that is accessibility. Accessibility is captions. Which... Thanks to the generosity of the sponsors, we have here. And the commitment of the organizers. Accessibility is alt text and management and policy and training and design and... It's everything. I have a couple of ideas of how I like to talk about digital accessibility to people who don't know what it is. Because if you're like me, we're kind of in the job of convincing people about accessibility. And I think there's a few things that... Well, you tell me what you think. 

So I think of digital accessibility as a door and a bridge. So the door part is: If we don't build accessible, we are locking disabled people out of the 21st Century. Because there's nothing that's not digital. You know. From finance to education to social to... And we're not just talking about locking the doors for consumers. We're talking about locking the doors for creators and employers and employees. You know, a lot of times accessibility is just thought of as who is gonna visit the website. But we're trying to create an accessible world where people with disabilities are building the website or designing the website. So digital accessibility -- I would like to just say: It's not that complicated. If you don't have it, you're blocking people out. And if you do have it, like the second picture shows, you have a door that's open. So the first picture is very... You know, locked up door. Not only is it old, because it's been... People have been excluded forever. And the paint is chipping. There's a double lock on it. And when we build accessibility, we're opening the door to people. So... That's why I think of each of you in this room as a door opener. And I think it's... To me, it's a useful metaphor, when I'm talking to people who don't know anything about what we're doing. Also bridge builder. I really think of accessibility as a bridge between disabled people on the one side and the technology of the world and the content of the world on the other. Without accessibility, people with disabilities are stranded on one side of the bridge. They cannot go over. There's a million things that build the bridge. And we're not gonna talk about all of those today. Just the law. But that makes you a bridge builder. Those are two ways we think about accessibility. Accessibility barriers are stairs. This is a picture of the Capitol Crawl. How many of you have heard of the Capitol Crawl? A lot of you. Because you're part of the New York Accessibility Meetup. But not all of you, because it's not something often taught in history.

This was part of the run-up to the Americans with Disabilities Act, where people with disabilities said: Enough is enough. And they left their wheelchairs and their crutches and their mobility devices at the foot of the Capitol stairs. And crawled up backwards. In this picture, you see two of the people. There's a Black woman crawling up backwards on her butt, and a white male crawling up forward. Someone is taking a picture. This is a photo by Tom Olin, who was an ADA disability movement photographer, who has really great photos, and he -- I asked his permission to use in my slides. And he generously gave that. So... You know, it's stairs that block participation, inclusion, and communication. And that's the big picture of what we're going for. So I think of each of you also as a ramp builder. A door opener. A bridge builder. A ramp builder. So other things, digital accessibility... It's privacy and security for disabled people. I used to always say: Digital accessibility is like privacy and security. We want companies to treat accessibility like security. Nothing can go out if it's not airtight. Nothing should go out if it's not accessible.

But the truth is... If there's not accessibility, there is no privacy and security for people with disabilities. Because the whole idea of accessibility is to allow for independent use. And if there's not independent use, then you have to ask someone outside the planned circle -- then security is broken. So... Digital accessibility is essential to diversity, equity, and inclusion. DEI. It's essential to environmental social governance, which is a way of investing, to make corporations pay attention to it. Accessibility already belongs in all of these things. Part of our job is to make people understand that. Accessibility is an ethics issue, both for ourselves to do our work ethically, and also for everybody else. If you're in a field, you have banking ethics, financial ethics, medical ethics. If they don't have accessibility in there, disabled people are gonna be left out. And digital accessibility is a civil right of people with disabilities.

So you know, sometimes I think with all your roles -- are there any other lawyers in this room? One lawyer! Welcome. I usually say there's no lawyers, and you guys are doing all the work. So... What's a lawyer doing up here talking to Accessibility Meetup? It's this last thing. That accessibility is a civil right. I have all my slides made by my web developer, Natalie MacLees. Who is a wonderful developer, made the slide template, gave me this great contrast color, which is called celery, against the blue slides. So I put civil right into the contrast color.

Or human right. In most parts outside of the United States, people refer to human rights compared to civil rights. But that is why the law is part of accessibility. So why is... Well, first thing: Civil rights are baked into laws. They're not just ideas. All these laws we have that... You know, some of us can... It's frustrating when people abuse the laws or don't take them seriously, or people don't listen. But the truth is: Those laws are civil rights laws. And it's really important -- I think -- to get the energy to keep doing this work, to remember that we're doing civil rights work by enforcing accessibility.

So I have this picture. Yummy chocolate chip cookie dough! Just to say that... Civil rights, the ideas are important and good. But until they're parts of laws, they don't help people as much. Just a mere idea. So I love this quote. The legal framework gives us permission to dream what is possible. It was spoken by this woman, Lizzie Kiama, from Kenya, at the Microsoft Ability Summit, from 2021. If you have never tuned into the Microsoft Ability Summit, I really recommend it. They do a wonderful job. It's one day in May, and they record it. It's available online. I recommend it. In the United States, we have a very strong framework. I could spend the rest of our time talking about the framework, but I won't, because we have so much to cover. But just to give you a very rough outline, we have the Americans with Disabilities Act. We have section 504, that says: The federal government shouldn't be spending money on things if people are excluded from those things. That's really what section 504 is.

Section 508, which is the federal procurement, that many of you work with, the air carriers access act, which is weak and trying to be strengthened on airline access for disabled people, does have strong requirements for accessible kiosks and websites. False claims, in the United States, if you tell the federal government or state government that you're delivering something accessible and you don't, there's a way you can file lawsuits. Hey, that's a false claim. That's a false claim. You can't do that. Section 1557 is about accessibility in the health care space. Communication and Video Accessibility Act -- how many of you work with the CVAA? Not too many. Not too many. I'm not quite sure why that is. I think partly because there's not a lot of lawsuits under it. It's all about... Mostly accessibility for deaf people, blind people, deafblind people, people who have difficulty communicating. We'll see in a minute -- there's an update to it. But also requires accessibility. And then on top of the federal framework, we have state and local laws in many states and local places that protect the civil right to participate.

And that's why I have a picture of the state. The picture I have of the country with all the different states. Every state is in a different color. And it's in part to show that every state has different laws. So wherever you are, you need to be familiar with the different laws of different states. On the other hand, you're not gonna have a special website for Texas, just because Texas doesn't have a strong of a requirement as you do in California. So it's good to know there are all these protections. But knowing the differences is not super, super important for most people.

So in New York, where we are, New York City and New York State have some of the strongest accessibility laws. Most cities don't have them. But New York City does. There's a lot of states that have requirements that if the state is gonna spend money, they can't exclude people. Just like section 504 and 508. If the federal government is gonna spend money, they can't exclude people. There's new laws popping up all over. Maryland has a brand-new procurement law as of last year, just for K-12 technology for students. That specifically requires all K-12 tech purchases be accessible.

Which is the only one in the country, as far as I know. If anyone hears me say anything that they know is wrong, please raise your hand. Don't wait for the question period. But that's a really exciting law. And I'm hoping that it will gain traction, and we'll see it in other states. Maine has a law -- I didn't bring up the piece of paper -- but Maine has a law for their state government websites, that says... It's so great. Let me just see if I have it right in the... I think I brought it right here to tell you. Yeah. It says... Any technology developed, procured, provided in the state of Maine, accessibility will be addressed natively. Without relying on third party products to improve accessibility that could potentially interfere with an inclusive user experience.

Basically an antioverlay -- which I haven't seen in any other... Correct me if I'm wrong. Which is why I pulled it out. Because I had a note to myself. Check Maine overlays. You know, laws, they go on and on forever. I said... Somewhere in here is gonna be something about overlays. I forced myself to read every word. And then I found this. I think it's section 5, the last section of this law. So I think those are... There's good models in different states. So yes. So that's part of the framework. And all these frameworks have different legal remedies. That's why I have a cup of tea. Because that's kind of like a remedy. So if you... Get involved in a lawsuit on the wrong end, you might have to fix everything. You might have to fix systems. You might end up with court oversight. The Department of Justice can collect penalties if they do accessibility work. In some states, a person with a disability is entitled to money for the discrimination they experienced. In some states, you have to pay the disabled person's lawyer under the ADA, if you're successful, you have to pay the disabled person's lawyer. You have to pay the organization's lawyer. All these things happen if you get on the wrong end of a lawsuit. And that's why it's really important to be proactive.

And not reactive. And not wait for the knock on the door. So... That is our framework, which... You know... To use the Kenyan woman's poetry, really... Like... We have a framework that gives us the ability to dream what's possible. And all the work you do, whatever role you're in, in accessibility, you are part of making that framework a reality. And making those dreams possible. So it's not just US. I have a picture of a globe here. Focused on Africa. I do have -- I put here -- the LF legal global law and policy page. I just updated it in May with the help of generous people. I don't know if anyone in this room or on Zoom -- put it in the chat -- or on YouTube, who sent in information about their countries. About 30 people sent in information. And if you go on the page, it's on the top level navigation bar under law and policy. There's a credit to the person with a link to their website or their LinkedIn page.

So all over the world... If you don't already think of yourself as part of a global movement, I really invite you to do that. It's very rewarding to me to wake up in the morning and get an email from someone in a way different time zone. Asking me an accessibility question or telling me something about accessibility. So the framework is getting stronger and stronger all over the world. Kenya just got its first accessibility regulations in 2022. So... There's a lot. What's on the horizon?

There's a lot on the horizon. There's two laws being proposed. We're not gonna get into it. But just so you know, there's a proposed websites and software application law, and there's a proposed update to the CVAA. The biggest thing about the proposed website and software applications law to me is that it would specifically apply to developers. Not just to the typical ADA state and local government, public accommodations.

I'm always hesitant to talk about what's proposed. Because what we have is so strong. I mean... We have the Americans with Disabilities Act and the state laws. Yes, it would be great if they were strengthened. So I'm always like... Yeah, I'm for improving the laws. And you can't wait. I do hear people say... Well, we might have a better law. I should wait. We might get a new regulation. I don't want to do anything yet. That is not a wise course of action.

There's proposed regulations on accessibility. And this is where you really hear people say... Well, I want to wait and see what happens with the regulations. But the truth is: Any regulations we get are gonna use WCAG, Web Content Accessibility Guidelines, as a standard, because it's a global standard. People have worked hard since 1997 to make sure there aren't competing standards. So I'm all for the accessibility regulations with the caveat of: Don't wait.

So on the horizon is the web and mobile accessibility regulations for state and local government. Those are supposed to be out... Ten years ago. No. 13 years ago. When I first started working on them, when the Obama Administration proposed them. They're there. The comments are closed. There's a kiosk regulation. That's supposed to be coming. I put this picture of someone waiting for a train. Because that's what it feels like. I mean, some of these regulations first... You know, when you've been in it as long as I have, and granted, as some of the rest of you -- you know they've already tried to get regulations. Yet still we have such advancement in accessibility, although we still have a lot to do. The Department of Health and Human Services is trying to update their regulations, the Department of Education is trying to update their regulations, yet all the while these agencies are still enforcing the law as it currently exists, because... Without accessibility, disabled people are discriminated against.

And that's what the ADA is all about. So yes, it would be good to have more specific regulations. But no, don't wait for them. There's regulations on EV charging station accessibility to make sure that's part of the infrastructure. So the federal agencies do more than just issue regulations. I think it's really important to be aware of what the federal agencies do. Because in some courts, they will still listen to federal agencies. Depends who your judges are. Enough said.

So this is a picture of a woman talking to a patient. A medical provider. Talking to a patient. Because the DOJ and the Health and Human Services did great telehealth guidance on the importance of accessible telehealth. They've done a lot of settlements. I have an article on my website just about this. What the federal government is doing around telehealth with the current regulations. So sometimes when the agencies can't get it together for some reason to issue regulations, which is... A more complicated process... They will issue this kind of guidance. They will issue the kind of guidance...

There's DOJ EEOC AI hiring tool guidance, about how it can discriminate against people with disabilities, to use AI hiring tools like resume scanners, or videos that are... You know, watching to see whether you're making eye contact. But some people with certain disabilities can't make eye contact easily. And as friends of mine who are blind and don't have eyes... And have glass eyes... They can't make... They're not making eye contact!

So you've got to be really careful. Another one I left off of here -- there's a Department of Ed Dear Colleague letter. I have an article about that on my website too. About how digital accessibility is so crucial in the higher ed space. But the regulations are so old. Like I just said. The DOE is trying to update the regulations. But they're so old that they couldn't get the regulations out fast enough, so they did this... What they call a Dear Colleague letter. Which is the federal government telling every higher ed institution in the country and K-12 too... What the law currently expects. Even without regulations.

And I have articles on all these things. Sorry for the Ed people here that I forgot the Ed one on the slide. Okay. So where are we on the road map? We're still on Vesey... I don't think we're on Vesey Street anymore. But we are in the World Trade Center. Thanks to the great sponsors. This beautiful building. Okay. So that's my ideas about digital accessibility. The current law. Next I want to talk about implementation. Ooh. I did the animation to make the word bigger, as well as in my celery color.

So without implementation, we still have the raw cookie dough. We have the ideas. That are baked into the law. But without implementation, and as I did the global page, and people wrote to me, I got very little on how laws are being implemented. In countries outside of the US. There's a lot of good law and policy being developed. But there's not the kind of implementation that we see here. So I know it gets annoying with certain kinds of lawsuits. I'll be the first to say that.

On the other hand, we have government agencies... We have a lot of different ways to implement the laws in the United States that don't show up in other places. So who implements laws and how are they implemented? I chose this image of a Black student speaking in Sign Language, because the very first way these laws are always implemented is by disabled people. Any time somebody calls a help line, and says: I can't see something. I can't find something. I can't hear something. That's a person with a disability talking about a lack of access. So it doesn't get... Oh, it's not like a lawsuit.

It's not like a government action. But it's every single day... These laws are being used by disabled people. Government agencies, Department of Justice, can file complaints. They get involved in lawsuits. There are a lot of lawsuits. We'll talk about those in a minute. And structured negotiation is the way I've been practicing since '95, which is... Collaboration instead of filing the lawsuit. When I have a client who has an accessibility barrier, I contact the company, starting with ATMs, back in the '90s, and say: You know, this is a legal violation. But rather than sue you, we'd like to sit down and work with you.

And you know, sometimes when I talk to lawyers, they're like... Well, that wouldn't work for me. I've never had anybody want to talk to me. To me, it's a learned skill. Which is why I wrote the book, really. Because... You can learn. We can learn to talk in a way that engages the people we're trying to talk to. We can learn how to be patient, which... Those of you who work in big companies know that patience is a necessary skill.

So structured negotiation. On my website, I have a high level navigation that says "settlement", and it lists... I really believe in transparency. So whenever possible, most of the time, I list the settlement agreements. I have a topics page, where you can look up press releases and see the press releases on the settlements, back to the very first one in 1999. So these are the four major ways that these laws are enforced. So there were 4,000 lawsuits last year. So I can't talk about all of them. However, I can share some of my favorite cases. Which is why I have the fireworks in the background.

Because there's a lot of ethical, good cases. There's a lot of ethical disability rights lawyers. There's a ton of ethical disabled people who hire a lawyer for the right reason. But we're bombarded with information about lawsuits that are suspicious. Let's leave it at that. So my favorite cases are ethical cases that are really trying to solve problems with real people. And I want to share a couple of them.

The first one is a $66 million dollar website case, illustrated by the woman holding money, burning. Which is both because they got themselves in a lawsuit, and because... Who would spend $66 million? How many of you are familiar with this case against California Park System, where the Park System hired a company to... Build a website for them, including a reservation system, California is a big state, and they paid $66 million for it. And it was delivered with the promise of accessibility.

But it wasn't accessible. So there's a lawsuit pending that's saying: That's a false claim. They claimed it was accessible. But that's false. And the lawsuit is trying to get the money back, to give it to California. They've sued the contractor and the web developer. The subcontractor on the project. Which is called US eDirect. This is a lawsuit being handled by the Tim Elder law firm. Tim is a blind lawyer in California. And before I do the legal updates, I always write to the lawyers.

Who I put in the category of ethical lawyers. And say: Anything to report? And I'm always asking Tim... What's to report? I was like... Keep my fingers crossed that you would all be the first to know that it's gonna be resolved. However... All we know is an announcement is expected soon! And I emailed him today. Actually, I'm gonna check my email right here. Because... Yeah, no. He didn't answer me today. Because I said... I'm speaking on Tuesday. Do you think you're gonna have anything on Tuesday? So... Pay attention to the social media. Because this has been a very hard lawsuit, going on for a long time.

And when it's resolved, I think it'll get a lot of attention. So that's one of my favorite cases. The next one is in education. There was a lawsuit against the LA Community College District, where in 2023, two blind students got a verdict, a jury verdict, after a trial, $240,000 for the two students. And all these university and higher ed cases... The CUNY one, which I think was also in 2023... Most of these cases start with... And I know there's people in the audience who know more about this than I do. I encourage you, during the Q and A, to correct me or add information.

A lot of these cases start with a blind student who has tried to get the problem fixed on their own. I mean, to me, it's not required that you give notice under the Americans with Disabilities Act. But to me, it's a best practice, and to many lawyers, it's a best practice to try to get the thing fixed. So if you're working with a company and they get a letter, they get a claim, it's like...

Your response doesn't have to be... To defend it. In fact, in Structured Negotiations, I try not to use the word "defendant". Because we don't want people defending bad practices. We want to approach people in a way that will make them think... Oh, this is important. I can fix this. So the CUNY case... The US attorney -- I have the quote here -- it is simply unacceptable that any student should be denied equal access to an education because of a disability.

That's under the current law, no regulations. You know. That's how it is. And there's a woman named Laura Carlson. She keeps a very good website. I don't know if any of you have ever looked at it. She keeps track of higher ed accessibility cases, and she puts in a press release. She's at the University of Minnesota. You can find her. And before this... Settlements. I think it's a really good idea, if you're in the higher ed space, to look at how these cases settle. Because those settlements are like a road map for how you should do things. So the recent settlements are with Harvard, who is not doing a fantastic job on accessibility... UC Berkeley, those are in the past couple of years.

And before that, University of Montana, Ohio, University of Miami, Ohio... So there's a lot of cases out there that can really give you a road map. Because these cases are not just talking about websites. They're talking about learning platforms and all types of student communications and content. So I really love the education cases. They're in my favorite category, because... The drive-by lawyers, they don't sue educational institutions. They're just going after deep pockets in the private sector. So pretty much all the cases that you see in the education space are ethical cases. By students who couldn't get something that they should have been able to get.

I think the CUNY and the LACCD cases were about math content and the importance of accessibility in math and engineering content. So... Yeah. Harvard, UC Berkeley, Montana. I put that up there. So employment. Employment is becoming increasingly tech. Which is why I have these robots up there. There's cases going on in employment -- again, in employment, most of the cases you see are like... I don't want to say cases... Hello, recorded people out there. Having me on YouTube forever!

If you were here, I might say more honestly what I think about some of these cases. But I'll just say... That the employment cases, like the education cases, tend to be by real applicants or employees who couldn't apply for a job, didn't... Weren't able to do the job, because technology wasn't accessible. So there's a very nice settlement with ADP and the blind community about ADP, which is like a payroll company. That was a case that was filed as a lawsuit, but then pivoted to structured negotiation.

So one thing I learned, doing the second edition of my book, is: My book is called Structured Negotiation: A Winning Alternative to Lawsuits. Because I haven't had to do a lawsuit since 1995. A lot of times, people have started to say... I want to get a lawsuit on file. Especially in this climate. Because when I started, there weren't 4,000 lawsuits about... You know, websites. And there weren't a third of the judges being appointed by the previous President.

So now sometimes people feel more comfortable with the lawsuits on file. But that doesn't mean you have to fight the lawsuit with everything you've got. You can still collaborate. So that's what happened in ADP. They switched to structured negotiation. They said: We're going to pause the fighting. And see if we can work this out. So my hat is off to all the parties in that case. There's a case pending against Workday, about their hiring tools. There's a case that was against the FBI, by someone working in tech in the backend.

And it was the first case that said: An individual blind person can file a lawsuit under 508. That was an open question. So we may be seeing more lawsuits under 508. There was a question about: Can you bring the lawsuit? Or do you have to go through an administrative procedure? Kiosks. Another thing where there's regulations pending. Like... 15 years, they first proposed regulation. Then didn't. Now they're pending again. Meanwhile, lawyers and clients who need access to kiosks are using lawsuits and structured negotiations to make kiosks accessible.

So this is one -- Quest Diagnostics. Have you guys ever done to a medical or lab where they use this? And this was... They did a whole trial. Haven't done a lawsuit since 1995. I was like... Why didn't they settle it? I know the lawyers who brought the case. And you know... You can't settle everything. It takes two to tango. So... This Quest Diagnostics case was just settled within the last two weeks. No. Wrong. There was a trial about 8 months ago. A whole trial in Los Angeles. And the judge just ruled that the kiosks have to be accessible. There has to be training. It was a very, very big victory in kiosks. I have... If you look up kiosks, on my website, in the search box, you'll find many things. But one thing that you'll find is... I have an article called kiosks: The law is paying attention. And there I put in every time I hear about a case about kiosks.

This is not the first one. The Quest Diagnostics. This is just the most recent one. So I really encourage you -- and that includes lawsuits and structured negotiation, and at the bottom, I have resources. Because, you know, the companies are also working on providing accessible kiosks. So kiosk cases are some of my favorites, because it's easy to do. It's not hard. And as more and more... Like, these Quest things, they don't have a person there. To register. And oftentimes, they give out medical information. And if you don't have access to it, talk about a privacy violation -- you have to have someone help you access it. So... That's why they're on my favorite case list.

Another one is this one. Panarra versus HTC Corporation. VR captioning. With the picture of the people... I've never done VR. I've never played a game in virtual reality. But as I understand it, they're wearing the VR headsets. I mean, you've got Thomas Logan here, so enough said. I don't have to say anything. But this was the very first lawsuit that ended up settling... Ah... It was a lawsuit against this HTC Corporation. I don't know if you all know what it is. It's like a library... It's like the Netflix of VR games. As I understand it. And there was a lawsuit against it for offering things and building things that weren't accessible to deaf people, because there were no captions.

And the first thing that happened is the company tried to throw the case out of court. But the judge said: This case can stay in court. And after that, it settled. So as far as I know, this is the only VR case in accessibility that's out there. There's a lot of good work being done in voting. Talk about participation. Citizenship. What could be more important? There's cases about accessible ballots for absentee voting, about accessible voting machines, about voting information. I put WCAG 2.1 in here, because the voting case in California was the first case to use 2.1, after 2.0. So they used to be 2.0. WCAG 2.0 was from 2008 to 2018.

And this first voting case -- it took maybe a year or two years to get the first settlement using WCAG 2.1. Which I share, because we now, as many of you know, have WCAG 2.2. But that doesn't mean all of a sudden every lawsuit in the country or settlement is gonna come out with a 2.2 result. So... That's something... When we get the first 2.2 legal thing, I will write about that on my website.

Podcast accessibility lawsuit. On podcast captioning and transcripts for podcasts. Very important. It's the National Association of the Deaf versus SiriusXM. SiriusXM owns Stitcher, and I think they own some other podcasts. And again, this is the bridge and the door thing. Because if there's no captions and transcripts on a podcast, people are locked out. They cannot access the content of the podcast. It's a very simple example. This is also an example -- there was an earlier podcast case, if you've been following legal updates for many years. Wait. Wasn't there already a case?

Yeah. But that was a case that wasn't... I'm not saying every lawsuit has to be kind of community driven. But when you're doing big first time cases, like podcast accessibility, it's very nice to consider the ramifications in the whole legal system. And try to... If you can't make the settlement public, because not all companies will agree, at least do a press announcement. But so many of these lawsuits -- not this one, but so many of these other lawsuits -- you never know what happens to them.

They get a big splash of press. This company, this big company, got sued. Or this big movie star got sued. And you never hear what happens to them. To me, part of the ethical picture is, especially when you're impacting -- I mean, podcasts. They're everywhere. Is being transparent. So... This case, when it finishes, we will know what happens. Okay. What are my least favorite parts of the US legal landscape? So instead of the pretty fireworks, I have the tornado and the black clouds.

THOMAS: And Lainey, I'm gonna give you a ten minute -- because I know you have a lot of slides. But we have about ten minutes.

LAINEY: Okay. Good. Thank you. Okay. I know I'm already talking fast. I'm very glad for the captions. You know... There's a lot of publicity around the numbers. So I just put up here one... The most recent numbers for September, 2023. 327 digital cases filed. 56 against defendants who were already sued. 58 against companies using an overlay. I get this information from UsableNet. I don't verify it myself. I have no reason to think it's wrong. But I just... UsableNet does these kinds of numbers. Seyfarth Shaw, which is a law firm that counsels and represents companies, they also do numbers. They don't do them every single month like this. So that's why I'm using UsableNet. I put a picture of a die here, because I feel like it's rolling the dice. Do they help accessibility or hurt accessibility? Usually I come down on the side of... So many lawsuits makes people afraid.

And fear is not a good motivator, in my experience. I have a quote. You'll see later I have a good quote about fear. But... It's like a roll of the dice. Sometimes they will make an impact. And the company that gets sued hires a good consultant, like Equal Entry. And then things get fixed, and that's good. But all too often... Correction. Those of you in the internet... Sometimes it's a shakedown. You know?

And then companies start thinking... Accessibility isn't important and they forget that accessibility -- and that's why I think it's so important that we talk about it as a civil right, as a door opener, as ramp builder, as bridge builder. Because they forget accessibility is about people. They just think it's about lawsuits. And the lawsuits are never called by the name of the person suing. They're always called by the company that got sued. So the people are completely left out of it. So I don't really like all the lawsuits. That's where I come down.

I've done talks, and somebody did a video, actually, gotta disagree with Lainey Feingold. Saw her talk the other day. I think the lawsuits really help, because it raises awareness. Check. True. It does raise awareness. Is it good awareness? I don't know. I'm not saying it's like... A hugely bright line. I just think we have to be aware when we talk about them to recognize... To recognize what we're really going for is... Inclusion of disabled people. In the digital space.

And here is just one year. Here are the numbers last year. 4,016 digital cases filed. 600 against defendants already sued. 600 plus against companies using an overlay. 97% about websites. That's another thing. Technology is going really fast, and the law is way back here. Ten miles back, talking about websites. So... Again, those numbers are from UsableNet. Overlays and SLAPP. Another thing I don't like. We don't know if the sound is gonna come on. But if it does... It's the Darth Vader death march. I don't know if you can hear it. I started using Star Wars imagery, because people I know and respect wrote a great book about Star Wars... Star Wars and dispute resolution.

And embarrassingly enough, I had never watched a Star Wars movie until... I know! I'm kind of blaming my age. It's really great having my dad here. Because I'm not the oldest person in the room, like I usually am. I've got my dad, who's 90. So that's all good. Meanwhile, I read a lot about Star Wars, and I understand Darth Vader now. I feel like overlays are a bad side of what's happening in the digital accessibility space. I really invite you to check out the overlay fact sheet, if you haven't already. I've written some articles on there. There's articles, there's media. And I really recommend sharing that.

Because I really believe the people purchasing, licensing the overlays are not really to blame for this problem that we have with the abundance of overlays. I think it's companies that have too much venture capital to put into advertising and marketing, and we've gotten ourselves into that situation. I have the word SLAPP up here. Which is a strategic lawsuit against public participation. As you probably know... Adrian Roselli was sued for saying negative things about an overlay company. And there's two lawsuits going on in France that were filed by a French overlay company.

Both against women. One against a woman who owns a company, an accessibility company, and one against a woman who has a two-person accessibility shop. So... I've written about all of this. I have an article... You can search overlay, you can search... I think at the beginning of '22, I did a whole legal update about overlays thing. US Supreme Court Laufer case. How many of you heard there was a US Supreme Court case in the past week? Okay.

Not that many of you heard. I almost left this out. We'll get back to it, if we have time. Yeah. It's... In civil rights law in the United States, testers have played a really important role. In the '60s, civil rights groups would send a Black couple and a white couple into housing, to see if they could buy the house. And nine times out of ten, the Black person would be denied and the white person wouldn't. They were never planning to buy the house. They were just testing the civil rights laws.

So testing is a very important civil rights concept. This woman in the Laufer case... There's a rule in the ADA that you have to post information about accessibility in hotel rooms. Do you have a roll-in shower? Very important rule. She has filed 600 cases about that. In hotels she never intended to visit. It went to the US Supreme Court. Even though she doesn't want to pursue it anymore, and the hotel company doesn't own the hotel anymore. So they just had the argument last week. Chances are... Based on the oral argument... And we won't know 'til next year, the court is gonna say... They're not really supposed to decide things when the plaintiff doesn't want to do the case and the defendant isn't there anymore.

So it's called being moot. They may decide the case is moot. So it's not one of my favorite things, for many reasons. Okay. How do we stay ahead of the law? Really quick. The accessibility cookie. I don't know how many of you know that I have an article on my website called accessibility is delicious. Full of baking analogies, and cooking analogies for accessibility, which I invite you to check out, and also send me additions. The accessibility cookie, just like the cookie in this picture, which were actually baked for me, when I did a talk in New Zealand -- tons of ingredients. Chocolate chips and coconut and salt and pepper and sugar and nuts and all these things. The accessibility cookie is hire and engage disabled people.

That's the number one ingredient. Have transparency in feedback. Testing and training. All the things many of you are doing in your jobs. Ethics. Design, development, and shift as far to the left as you can. Procurement, policy and culture. I heard someone from Google get on the stage and say... At Google, culture eats policy. Oh, I was moderating a panel, and some corporate people were on it, and I said: Don't you want to talk about policy? And the Google person publicly said: At Google, culture eats policy. So some organizations really depend on policy. But I say this, understanding the accessibility cookie. Because when you understand how many parts of your organization accessibility touches, then that's the best way to stay ahead of the legal curve.

HR, marketing, comms, all these things. Collaboration. All part of the cookie. No shortcuts, no overlays. Part of the cookie. And the law. I call the law the salt. Salt, because you can't get a sweet cookie. How many of you are bakers? You know this. You don't get a sweet cookie, unless you put in a little salt. But if you put in too much salt, what do you get? A very bad cookie. So knowing the law, understanding the law, being able to talk about the law... I'll give you a few ideas about that. Really is important for staying ahead of the curve. Knowing the law.

But not to the extent that you're letting the law drive your decisions. Because... That can be problematic. The best, most advanced companies in my mind... They know the law. They want to get past the law. Somebody at M Enabling, an accessibility conference, last week -- got on the stage and said: Let's do the law, get the boring part out of the way so we can do the fun stuff. I got a chance to talk to that audience and said: I've got to take a little issue with that. When you think about law as civil rights and letting people in and crossing the bridge, that can be fun too. It's really important. So to me, talking about digital accessibility with a focus on civil rights, inclusion/exclusion... It's your choice.

Do you want to exclude people? Nobody wants to exclude people. I really believe that. I mean, people get caught up in other things. But if we as advocates and leaders, if you're at this meetup, I consider you an accessibility champion. You would not be here if not. If we start talking about accessibility in these ways, privacy and security, diversity, inclusion, and belonging, independence, it's good for business... If we talk with these ideas, better products and services... I think that goes a long way to getting companies to stay ahead of the curve.

With the focus on people. Always talking about people. Like, instead of talking about lawsuits, we said: Should blind workers be able to check their vacation time without asking for help? Or their health care? Shouldn't deaf learners be able to access podcasts? Shouldn't blind campers be able to make a park reservation? Shouldn't deaf gamers be able to play in virtual reality? Shouldn't blind students be able to access court materials? These are what the ethical lawsuits are about. They're really about people trying to gain access to the digital world we're live in. We have to understand who we're talking to.

When we're talking about accessibility and the law. One of my favorite pictures is up here. It's a cat looking in a mirror and seeing a lion. And I say that... I use this to say: Every organization, every person, every supervisor, every boss, every company, sees themselves in a certain way. And our job is to say: The way you see yourself: You have to do accessibility. Because if not, you're missing part of yourself. So... What do they care about? How do they see themselves? You know, we're company centric. We care about companies. We put our employees first. Well, no, you don't. If you're not accessible and don't have accessible tools. What are your values? We can fit accessibility into every value.

Because accessibility is the ethics. Accessibility is including 1.3 billion people around the globe that have a form of a disability. What are they worried about? You know? We're worried about... It's gonna cost too much. Okay. Well, let's talk about the cost of the lawsuit versus the cost of building accessibility in from the front. We're worried... I mean... I could go on and on. And I did in the book a little bit. About... Companies worry about so many things. We did talking prescription labels with major pharmacies.

I got one more minute? One more minute? Okay. Good. We're practically done. And they were worried that if a blind person heard a talking prescription, they would hear the wrong thing and... Take the wrong medication and get sick. And if we were in a court, we would be saying to a judge: That's the most ridiculous thing. Right now they're giving a blind person medication with no label. So you have to understand... Seriously! You have to understand what someone's worried about -- this is all about being able to listen and show how accessibility fits in.

How not to talk about accessibility. With fear. Fear is the path that leads to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. Says Yoda. Says all of us. So this is why I don't like fear. Don't be a shark. Jaws theme song. Playing in the background. Don't be a shark. I talked about that. Don't act like a shark. Don't feel like you have to be the little goldfish with the shark fin on it. Don't feel you have to.

No. That gets a big X. Don't reduce accessibility to a checklist. Because that takes people out of it. X across that. Instead... Be a dolphin. Be a dolphin. So... Dolphins collaborate and communicate. Cute little dolphin sounds.

(cute little dolphin sounds)

Again... Like... So many ideas... So cute! I did this talk somewhere. I've used the Jaws theme song for a long time. A blind friend of mine, Jesse Lorenz, who works on Amazon, came up to me and said... Why don't you play a dolphin sound, when you're showing your dolphin slide? I'm like... That's a good idea I haven't thought of! Which I could go my whole entire history since '95, telling you every good idea I got. Primarily came -- mostly came -- from disabled people. Primarily blind people, who helped me do all this work. Dolphins collaborate. They communicate. I use it as a metaphor, to talk about empathy and active listening. So... Don't be a shark! Be a dolphin. And stay in touch. My closing slide has a picture of my book. It has my social media handle, LFLegal, my website, again, is LFLegal.com, and you can always write to me at LF@LFLegal.com or use the contact page of the website. So thank you very much. I think we have time for questions. I hope.

(applause)

CAMERON: Thank you, Lainey. And we do have time for questions. And we have a bunch of questions coming in through the stream and we'll also take questions from the room. So I'm gonna start with a question from the stream. How actively are rules around accessibility for government funded services enforced? Is there a built-in audit system? Or is it up to individual citizens to raise issues?

LAINEY: That is a very good question. And that's one difference -- did everyone get the -- the question was on the captions. In the European model, which is getting strengthened through the European Accessibility Act, which is sort of in play to be completed by 2025, there's a lot more self-reporting. In most... The ADA doesn't have a reporting requirement, as far as I know. Some states may have it. And that's one of the reasons for this tester lawsuit -- why the disability community really rallied around this woman, even though she had filed 600 lawsuits, and we might think of her in a certain way, but the importance of private enforcement is very important. So I don't really know offhand the answer. But if that person wants to email me, I will see if I can find out exactly, if there are any requirements like that. I think 508 does have requirements. In fact, the government just did a whole survey of 508, and enforcement. And that is online at the M Enabling, the panel I moderated, was with the head of the Access Board as one of the panelists. And he talked about this government survey they just did, of how all the agencies are enforcing section 508 and the big takeaway is... There's a lot of work that still needs to be done.

So you can find that on the Access Board website.

CAMERON: Amazing. Next question.

KEVIN ANDREWS: Hi, Lainey. Kevin Andrews. I heard you speak at M Enabling last year. And again, this time... Coming away feeling very inspired. As a disabled practitioner, I just had a quick question around... So I sat there and read the entire DOJ's latest NPRM. Because I'm a nerd.

LAINEY: Round of applause. It's like 400 pages! It's 400 pages! Continue.

KEVIN ANDREWS Not just the fact sheet. Right?

LAINEY: Still!

KEVIN ANDREWS So my question tonight for you is: So what is your take on... It seems like all of the different... A lot of the different... I should say a lot of the different judges around the country -- district courts, based on my research -- I'm not a lawyer. What is your take on their various interpretations, for example, southern district of New York seems very favorable to plaintiffs? Other districts not so much. How do we... Like... Work with that? Considering that all of... Different areas in the country seem to take very different interpretations of this standing to sue, not standing -- I don't know. I'd like to hear your take on that, if you can.

LAINEY: Yeah. The most cases are filed in either New York or California. Massachusetts, Florida. Because not only... I should have put this on the slide... Not only are there 50 states with different requirements. There's 12 circuits. There's district court, after that, appeal court, after that, Supreme Court. There's 12 different districts. So... I mean... One of the biggest issues that's still out there is: Can you sue if it's an online-only company? Versus... Do you have to have a connection to the physical place?

Some parts of the country still say you have to have a connection to the physical place. New York I think... That's a second... That's called the second circuit. Massachusetts is the first circuit. You don't have to have the connection to bring the lawsuit. Like the case against Netflix and captioning, which is 11 years old now. That was a lawsuit that was successful. Netflix doesn't have a physical place. But... Like I said before, you're not gonna... You really should design and develop and produce content and technology to the most stringent standard.

So... Yeah. It's different. You know, now that... When I was in law school, a long time ago, we always used to talk about... There's no... Everyone thinks the law is so neutral. And the judges are gonna come to the right decision. And... You know... We always felt... That's not happening. People are political. But now with the Trump appointees, so reactionary... And the democratic appointees not so much... You can kind of look at who the judge is gonna be, and... Not all the time. Sometimes it doesn't happen.

You're gonna get a different result, depending on who the judge is. So... Yeah. Good question.

CAMERON: I'm gonna take another question from the stream. Kind of relates to the previous question. Every state has its own laws. Is there any hope of a federal standard that will allow websites to be in compliance with all states by simply complying with the federal standard?

LAINEY: There won't be that. Because the United States Constitution allows states to make their own laws. However, like I said before, luckily, the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines will be the standard, if we ever get regulations out of the federal government. And the courts that are ruling on these things -- they're not saying if you violate WCAG, you violate the ADA. But one way to show that people are discriminated against or... Another part of the ADA is: You have to effectively communicate with disabled people. And in the digital age, you cannot do that without accessibility.

The states will have those same standards. Non-discrimination. But we'll never get... A federal government can't say... You can't... A state can't make a law, because we have a law on the same topic. But it would be a good idea. Good idea, questioner.

>> You mentioned that there's a privacy aspect to this. So how do the laws impact privacy with people with disabilities? So, for instance, I've heard that HIPAA doesn't protect private companies from selling health data to data brokers, because they're not in the medical field. So if I'm a developer, and I'm tracking that someone is using a screen reader or some kind of accessibility tool, what laws are in place, if any, that prevents me from selling that information to a broker?

LAINEY: I'm not an expert in privacy laws. So I should say that. And I don't think... There is a very big issue out there about tracking screen reader usage. And that's one of the problems with the overlay companies. But not just the overlay companies. You know. People tracking. But as far as I know, there haven't been any legal actions about that. But it's a good question. And... I think there's some people -- Chancey Fleet or Lydia Brown, who tend to write on the bigger legal... They may be here or write on some of this stuff. Chancey was a fellow at the Data And Society. But that's an important issue. I don't think the law has really grappled with it yet.

CAMERON: I'm just gonna toggle back and forth between the room and the stream. Lainey, what are your thoughts on how the rubber meets the road when it comes to lawsuits for native mobile apps? As mentioned, all laws reference WCAG, which isn't a one to one mapping to mobile?

LAINEY: That is true. However... In the settlements that we do, which always include mobile, and the good thing about the proposed title 2 regulations, which are out there, which are state and local government websites, they also cover mobile. So... When the standard comes out, if it comes out, it'll cover apps. So... We usually... You know... We talk about the standard, and we also talk about usable by. We in our agreements reference a requirement to be familiar with the Apple and the Android developer standards.

Which talk about the mobile apps. So... I think... I don't know. I'm not an expert on the technology of WCAG. But it gets pretty close, I think.

CAMERON: Thank you. Question from the room?

>> Thank you so much for this very interesting talk. I have a question about... How are we keeping up with regulation when it comes to new technologies like AI, for example? Are we doing a better job than we did with previous technologies? I know the Bill of Rights... Yeah.

LAINEY: I'm shaking my head no, for those who can't see me. The law is just too slow. The proposed CVAA update -- called the CVTA -- and the proposed -- those two laws I had under what's proposed -- the web and... It's the software act -- they have a section in there about studies to keep up with the new technology. But the way they're written, I mean... The community has really worked hard on these laws. So I don't want to criticize them. It's not the community's fault, who has worked with legislators to create them. But if someone only has to do a report every 2 to 5 years, and that's just the report, before something happens... It's... It's like we have to have the motivation be more than waiting for the law. We cannot wait. We cannot wait. That's why... All these other things -- it's good for business. And it's important for privacy. It's important for security. Yes, and the law -- but... The law -- and the regulatory side is pretty slow. Although the ADA has been around for 33 years. And it's being used to make websites accessible. And make mobile accessible. I mean... I don't do lawsuits. And the companies I resolve cases with... Aren't admitting any liability.

That's part of the deal. Nobody is saying you're violating the law. We have our legal position. They have theirs. But we're working on solution. I lost my train of thought there. But... They're not... It just can't be... The law just can't be the only motivator. Oh, no. What I wanted to say is that... If the ADA wasn't there, because when I speak in other countries, people say... Well, we don't have an ADA. How can we... Yeah. You don't file lawsuits. You don't go to a judge. But you have this incredible foundation that we talked about at the beginning. That allows us to dream. That enables me to do my work. Which is why it's really important in all my talks for me to say -- which hopefully I said -- lawsuits are very important. These laws are very important. I've been lucky enough to work with disabled people, primarily blind people, who want to collaborate, but... We already have a very strong law. So yes, it would be good to have... Especially for AI. You know, New York has the new AI regulation with some disclosure requirements, when AI is being used.

But you know, people don't think they're strong enough. But it's something that other states don't have. So... Yeah.

>> Thank you.

LAINEY: Yeah. Basically you can't wait. That has to be our mantra. Can't wait.

CAMERON: Okay. I'm gonna take one last question. From someone who is first time to the meetup. Over here.

>> Hi, Lainey. I am a web developer at a government agency. I was wondering what is the best way -- I believe in partnership with disabled people in testing. But I wonder what are some of the best ways to detect the problems in accessibility... I guess early? And maybe prevent the problems already? Or prevent the lawsuits by people who are, like, who don't have disabilities. What can we do to test?

LAINEY: Well, I noticed one of the sponsors here is Evinced. Is someone here from Evinced? And Fable. Who are two wonderful companies that you can work with on some of these issues. Fable has an incredible testing platform. And while you're doing things, you can say -- oh, let's get this little piece. It doesn't have to be the whole thing. You don't have to wait -- and you shouldn't wait -- until the whole thing is done. And say: Let's see if it works. One little part. You contract with Fable, and they have disabled people on their platform. They test it. Evinced has some technology, and they work with developers as things are being developed.

And you know, I did a talk for ID24, which I can recommend to you. That's a free online 24 hour conference. I would check the whole schedule. It was just in September. And I did a talk with Kim Charlson, who was formerly President of the American Council of the Blind. We call it lawyers and advocates in beautiful partnership. We've worked together for years. And one of the things we talked about was -- what we do in the concept of structured negotiation -- partners don't have to wait even for a friendly letter from me. You can partner with disability organizations, use the technology. Hire a firm like Thomas's, to do a little checking. Take a small piece. I'm a big believer in celebrating small successes. Say you have a registration thing, or say you have a date picker, and people have tremendous problems with picking dates when they have to enter their birthdays. They can be so inaccessible. Just get that fixed and celebrate that. That will lead to the next thing.

That's what I got. Thank you very much. It was really fun to do this.